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	<title>Comments on: What Does It Take to Get Me to Watch a Reality TV Show? Monks!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/what-does-it-take-to-get-me-to-watch-a-reality-tv-show-monks/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/what-does-it-take-to-get-me-to-watch-a-reality-tv-show-monks/</link>
	<description>"If an otter can't have fun doing something, it just simply won't do it."</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 04:58:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: theotter</title>
		<link>http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/what-does-it-take-to-get-me-to-watch-a-reality-tv-show-monks/#comment-238</link>
		<dc:creator>theotter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:21:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/what-does-it-take-to-get-me-to-watch-a-reality-tv-show-monks/#comment-238</guid>
		<description>Yes, but he knows going into the project that it involves an oath to obey the abbot. It's entirely possible that the show producers deliberately picked him because they sensed he would bring "exciting" conflict to the situation. 

Oh, and by the way, now that I think about it, I don't think the monks actually asked him to genuflect, since they wouldn't expect that of non-Catholics. I think it was one of the other seekers--who is Catholic--who expressed concern with his lack of genuflection. The monks are more concerned with his slouching, skulking, and other obvious displays of disrespect. 

As I said, I can completely sympathize with his desire not to do something if he doesn't understand it. But I'm not sure if he really WANTS to understand it, or if he just wants to condemn it as stupid. Plus, I can't imagine that the monks haven't given him some instruction about what the various symbolic actions mean. I suspect he simply hasn't been listening. 

I can also understand his frustration at being reprimanded. When K and I were at St. Catherine's Monastery at Mount Sinai this summer, we attended a few Orthodox services there. I expected them to be fairly similar to Catholic and Anglican services. Wrong! Well, actually it would be hard to tell how similar they were, since everything was in Greek, and we had no earthly idea what was going on most of the time. But the feeling was very different. There was no congregational participation (as least not as we think of congregational participation, with singing and spoken liturgical reponses and such). In fact, most of the congregants sat off behind a screen. We wondered if we were being improper by sitting in the seats in front of the screen. Evidently we were--not because of our location, but because K and I were sitting with our legs crossed. We were reprimanded, and I'm still not sure whether it had to do with impropriety or perceived disrespect. We're guessing the latter. The monks there seemed to view leg-crossing as equivalent to slouching. Of course, for little Southern me, it's just polite. I think I was most indignant because I WAS trying to be respectful. But if you don't know the local/denominational traditions, you just don't know what's going to be perceived as respect. 

However, in the case of Alex, I still feel that he would show the monks respect if he actually viewed them as "manly" men. However, if someone doesn't behave according to his own code of manliness, they apparently aren't worthy of obedience. 

On a side note, I'm always conflicted about sanctuary behavior because I kind of believe in both extremes. I like genuflecting and making the sign of the cross and such because it reminds me that worship isn't just a mental experience--it's a bodily one, too. But, on the other hand, I grew up running around pews with our puppies and dancing around the sanctuary when no one else was there. There's something about that freedom to be a child in the house of God that I love. Fun can be part of sacred space, too. I guess the common thread for me in both extremes is that I'm able to bring my whole self into worship. But, when there are other people around, it's a bit more difficult, because you have to respect their ways of worshiping, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, but he knows going into the project that it involves an oath to obey the abbot. It&#8217;s entirely possible that the show producers deliberately picked him because they sensed he would bring &#8220;exciting&#8221; conflict to the situation. </p>
<p>Oh, and by the way, now that I think about it, I don&#8217;t think the monks actually asked him to genuflect, since they wouldn&#8217;t expect that of non-Catholics. I think it was one of the other seekers&#8211;who is Catholic&#8211;who expressed concern with his lack of genuflection. The monks are more concerned with his slouching, skulking, and other obvious displays of disrespect. </p>
<p>As I said, I can completely sympathize with his desire not to do something if he doesn&#8217;t understand it. But I&#8217;m not sure if he really WANTS to understand it, or if he just wants to condemn it as stupid. Plus, I can&#8217;t imagine that the monks haven&#8217;t given him some instruction about what the various symbolic actions mean. I suspect he simply hasn&#8217;t been listening. </p>
<p>I can also understand his frustration at being reprimanded. When K and I were at St. Catherine&#8217;s Monastery at Mount Sinai this summer, we attended a few Orthodox services there. I expected them to be fairly similar to Catholic and Anglican services. Wrong! Well, actually it would be hard to tell how similar they were, since everything was in Greek, and we had no earthly idea what was going on most of the time. But the feeling was very different. There was no congregational participation (as least not as we think of congregational participation, with singing and spoken liturgical reponses and such). In fact, most of the congregants sat off behind a screen. We wondered if we were being improper by sitting in the seats in front of the screen. Evidently we were&#8211;not because of our location, but because K and I were sitting with our legs crossed. We were reprimanded, and I&#8217;m still not sure whether it had to do with impropriety or perceived disrespect. We&#8217;re guessing the latter. The monks there seemed to view leg-crossing as equivalent to slouching. Of course, for little Southern me, it&#8217;s just polite. I think I was most indignant because I WAS trying to be respectful. But if you don&#8217;t know the local/denominational traditions, you just don&#8217;t know what&#8217;s going to be perceived as respect. </p>
<p>However, in the case of Alex, I still feel that he would show the monks respect if he actually viewed them as &#8220;manly&#8221; men. However, if someone doesn&#8217;t behave according to his own code of manliness, they apparently aren&#8217;t worthy of obedience. </p>
<p>On a side note, I&#8217;m always conflicted about sanctuary behavior because I kind of believe in both extremes. I like genuflecting and making the sign of the cross and such because it reminds me that worship isn&#8217;t just a mental experience&#8211;it&#8217;s a bodily one, too. But, on the other hand, I grew up running around pews with our puppies and dancing around the sanctuary when no one else was there. There&#8217;s something about that freedom to be a child in the house of God that I love. Fun can be part of sacred space, too. I guess the common thread for me in both extremes is that I&#8217;m able to bring my whole self into worship. But, when there are other people around, it&#8217;s a bit more difficult, because you have to respect their ways of worshiping, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Dormouse</title>
		<link>http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/what-does-it-take-to-get-me-to-watch-a-reality-tv-show-monks/#comment-237</link>
		<dc:creator>Dormouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Oct 2006 00:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/what-does-it-take-to-get-me-to-watch-a-reality-tv-show-monks/#comment-237</guid>
		<description>I didn't watch the show, so I might be way off here, depending on how the kid is characterized, but.

&lt;i&gt;My own gut reaction is that Alex is an immature jerk—you know that he was trained to obey and respect his superiors in the military, so why can’t he do the same for the monks?&lt;/i&gt;

I think you might've just answered your own question. 

No religious background. He got obedience beaten into him (figuratively and literally speaking), and what did it earn him? Life with one leg. 

I can see why he might have a hard time doing as he's told just b/c someone told him to do it. Or maybe that's just b/c I don't believe in doing something just b/c someone told me to, either. Genuflecting, for instance, actually makes me very uncomfortable. But then, I"m not seeking in a monastery. So.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t watch the show, so I might be way off here, depending on how the kid is characterized, but.</p>
<p><i>My own gut reaction is that Alex is an immature jerk—you know that he was trained to obey and respect his superiors in the military, so why can’t he do the same for the monks?</i></p>
<p>I think you might&#8217;ve just answered your own question. </p>
<p>No religious background. He got obedience beaten into him (figuratively and literally speaking), and what did it earn him? Life with one leg. </p>
<p>I can see why he might have a hard time doing as he&#8217;s told just b/c someone told him to do it. Or maybe that&#8217;s just b/c I don&#8217;t believe in doing something just b/c someone told me to, either. Genuflecting, for instance, actually makes me very uncomfortable. But then, I&#8221;m not seeking in a monastery. So.</p>
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