Comments on: The Phenomenon of the “U2-charist” http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/the-phenomenon-of-the-%e2%80%9cu2-charist%e2%80%9d/ "If an otter can't have fun doing something, it just simply won't do it." Wed, 07 Jan 2009 01:30:03 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: theotter http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/the-phenomenon-of-the-%e2%80%9cu2-charist%e2%80%9d/#comment-247 theotter Tue, 31 Oct 2006 22:03:57 +0000 http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/the-phenomenon-of-the-%e2%80%9cu2-charist%e2%80%9d/#comment-247 But, if the liturgy is there, un-tampered with, to unify the service, does all the music need to be of one style or by the same artist? I understand the concern for unity, though--I can definitely remember some services I've been to that try to achieve a variety of musical styles and end up creating schizophrenia. I noticed in the comments on the blog "The Corner" (the one with the sample "U2-charist") that their idea for the liturgy was somewhat inspired by Wild Goose people (John Bell of Iona, and company). I know that there's an emphasis among contemporary Celtic Christians on music that is "the people's" music, music that has roots in whatever the local folk traditions are. I like the idea, but "the people" have so many different folk traditions in the U.S. (and in Britain and Ireland as well, though this isn't always acknowledged). Anyway, speaking of U2 . . . http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061031/film_nm/u2_dc_2 But, if the liturgy is there, un-tampered with, to unify the service, does all the music need to be of one style or by the same artist? I understand the concern for unity, though–I can definitely remember some services I’ve been to that try to achieve a variety of musical styles and end up creating schizophrenia.

I noticed in the comments on the blog “The Corner” (the one with the sample “U2-charist”) that their idea for the liturgy was somewhat inspired by Wild Goose people (John Bell of Iona, and company). I know that there’s an emphasis among contemporary Celtic Christians on music that is “the people’s” music, music that has roots in whatever the local folk traditions are. I like the idea, but “the people” have so many different folk traditions in the U.S. (and in Britain and Ireland as well, though this isn’t always acknowledged).

Anyway, speaking of U2 . . . http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061031/film_nm/u2_dc_2

]]> By: Mink http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/the-phenomenon-of-the-%e2%80%9cu2-charist%e2%80%9d/#comment-245 Mink Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:55:31 +0000 http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/the-phenomenon-of-the-%e2%80%9cu2-charist%e2%80%9d/#comment-245 The Bono-fied service at Willow that I attended mixed performances of actual U2 songs with performances of songs that sounded kind-of like U2 songs but, I think, were written by the Willow production teams, and tried to be a bit easier to sing along to. Interesting to me to see how different artists/leaders use different techniques to address exactly those questions you are raising. I think keeping it all U2 songs would give it unity - like an album that should be heard all at once. As one who has worked to develop worship services that re-present liturgy (and who attends a church where, to one extent or another, that is the norm), I would say finding a unifying feature is the hardest part. The liturgy itself has stayed surprisingly unvaried across time and tradition, and has a great consistency, a wholeness in its variety. When one tampers with that, one has to find ways to reestablish the integrity of the service - as for instance, limiting oneself to songs a certain band (who conveniently has a vocal and socially active Christian front man). I'm looking forward to the Johnny Cash Eucharist ;) The Bono-fied service at Willow that I attended mixed performances of actual U2 songs with performances of songs that sounded kind-of like U2 songs but, I think, were written by the Willow production teams, and tried to be a bit easier to sing along to. Interesting to me to see how different artists/leaders use different techniques to address exactly those questions you are raising.
I think keeping it all U2 songs would give it unity - like an album that should be heard all at once. As one who has worked to develop worship services that re-present liturgy (and who attends a church where, to one extent or another, that is the norm), I would say finding a unifying feature is the hardest part. The liturgy itself has stayed surprisingly unvaried across time and tradition, and has a great consistency, a wholeness in its variety. When one tampers with that, one has to find ways to reestablish the integrity of the service - as for instance, limiting oneself to songs a certain band (who conveniently has a vocal and socially active Christian front man). I’m looking forward to the Johnny Cash Eucharist ;)

]]> By: theotter http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/the-phenomenon-of-the-%e2%80%9cu2-charist%e2%80%9d/#comment-244 theotter Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:00:50 +0000 http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/the-phenomenon-of-the-%e2%80%9cu2-charist%e2%80%9d/#comment-244 Okay, I just keep adding things here, but I thought yesterday's "Quote of the Day" from the God's Politics Blog applicable to our discussion (you decide how!): "The Psalms defy our notions of profane and sacred, proving that everything we feel, witness, do unto others, and have done to us is acceptable subject matter for conversing with the Divine. They invite us to bring every part of ourselves into our houses of worship. If we omit expressions of faith lost, of rage, of disdain, and of the desire for revenge, we leave parts of ourselves at the door." http://www.beliefnet.com/blogs/godspolitics/2006/10/voice-of-day-kari-jo-verhulst.html Okay, I just keep adding things here, but I thought yesterday’s “Quote of the Day” from the God’s Politics Blog applicable to our discussion (you decide how!):

“The Psalms defy our notions of profane and sacred, proving that everything we feel, witness, do unto others, and have done to us is acceptable subject matter for conversing with the Divine. They invite us to bring every part of ourselves into our houses of worship. If we omit expressions of faith lost, of rage, of disdain, and of the desire for revenge, we leave parts of ourselves at the door.”

http://www.beliefnet.com/blogs/godspolitics/2006/10/voice-of-day-kari-jo-verhulst.html

]]> By: theotter http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/the-phenomenon-of-the-%e2%80%9cu2-charist%e2%80%9d/#comment-243 theotter Tue, 31 Oct 2006 16:54:32 +0000 http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/the-phenomenon-of-the-%e2%80%9cu2-charist%e2%80%9d/#comment-243 Porpoise found a sample "U2-charist" liturgy posted on another blog: http://thecorner.typepad.com/bc/2006/02/u2charist_form_.html Some things I really like about it; some things would drive me nuts: "On the screen behind me you will see such words displayed, written by the evangelists, St. Mark and Bono." I always have mixed feelings about any liturgy that (to me) seems to put too much emphasis on how good our words sound, as opposed to ones where even the congregational responses are steeped in Scripture. But there's always the question of how the old liturgies can be made accessible to people not raised in the church . . . Tough stuff. Porpoise found a sample “U2-charist” liturgy posted on another blog: http://thecorner.typepad.com/bc/2006/02/u2charist_form_.html

Some things I really like about it; some things would drive me nuts: “On the screen behind me you will see such words displayed, written by the evangelists, St. Mark and Bono.”

I always have mixed feelings about any liturgy that (to me) seems to put too much emphasis on how good our words sound, as opposed to ones where even the congregational responses are steeped in Scripture. But there’s always the question of how the old liturgies can be made accessible to people not raised in the church . . . Tough stuff.

]]> By: theotter http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/the-phenomenon-of-the-%e2%80%9cu2-charist%e2%80%9d/#comment-242 theotter Tue, 31 Oct 2006 16:27:13 +0000 http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/the-phenomenon-of-the-%e2%80%9cu2-charist%e2%80%9d/#comment-242 Yeah, the article says that, legally, the U2-charist pretty much has to be a one-time thing for each congregation. I should also mentioned that I wouldn't feel the need to have songs with mutiple functions in a service with no Eucharist (I often forget that such services exist, simply because of my own preferences!). But in a Eucharist, I feel like all the different elements of worship have to be there. I think one of my big remaining questions is: why just U2 music? Why limit it like that? Why not use U2, Brooks Williams (icelimbo's favorite!), and a bunch of other artists who have something to say about faith? Singing "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God" certainly isn't worshiping Luther, but what about a whole service with ONLY Luther songs (if such a thing were possible)? Yeah, the article says that, legally, the U2-charist pretty much has to be a one-time thing for each congregation.

I should also mentioned that I wouldn’t feel the need to have songs with mutiple functions in a service with no Eucharist (I often forget that such services exist, simply because of my own preferences!). But in a Eucharist, I feel like all the different elements of worship have to be there.

I think one of my big remaining questions is: why just U2 music? Why limit it like that? Why not use U2, Brooks Williams (icelimbo’s favorite!), and a bunch of other artists who have something to say about faith? Singing “A Mighty Fortress Is Our God” certainly isn’t worshiping Luther, but what about a whole service with ONLY Luther songs (if such a thing were possible)?

]]> By: Mink http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/the-phenomenon-of-the-%e2%80%9cu2-charist%e2%80%9d/#comment-241 Mink Tue, 31 Oct 2006 16:05:58 +0000 http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/the-phenomenon-of-the-%e2%80%9cu2-charist%e2%80%9d/#comment-241 My impression is that the U2-charist is a one-time thing, a "take" on the liturgy that might be very helpful - a time to set two worshipful things together and go back to both refreshed and more insightful. It wouldn't lend itself to a regular diet - even U2 hasn't written enough music to answer the demands of week-in and week-out. I think it may be great - but I'd have to do it to know, of course. (Talking about liturgy is like dancing about architecture, and all that...) Interestingly, Willow Creek has been doing a similar thing w/ U2's music all summer at their Chicago-land branches - with a whole lot less worship-oriented contextualization (they're very performance oriented, and not participatory). My impression is that the U2-charist is a one-time thing, a “take” on the liturgy that might be very helpful - a time to set two worshipful things together and go back to both refreshed and more insightful. It wouldn’t lend itself to a regular diet - even U2 hasn’t written enough music to answer the demands of week-in and week-out. I think it may be great - but I’d have to do it to know, of course. (Talking about liturgy is like dancing about architecture, and all that…) Interestingly, Willow Creek has been doing a similar thing w/ U2’s music all summer at their Chicago-land branches - with a whole lot less worship-oriented contextualization (they’re very performance oriented, and not participatory).

]]> By: theotter http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/the-phenomenon-of-the-%e2%80%9cu2-charist%e2%80%9d/#comment-240 theotter Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:24:05 +0000 http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/the-phenomenon-of-the-%e2%80%9cu2-charist%e2%80%9d/#comment-240 Yup, that's exactly how I imagine U2 being used well in worship. Thanks for the example! Yup, that’s exactly how I imagine U2 being used well in worship. Thanks for the example!

]]> By: Jillian http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/the-phenomenon-of-the-%e2%80%9cu2-charist%e2%80%9d/#comment-239 Jillian Tue, 31 Oct 2006 03:59:37 +0000 http://www.theottery.com/2006/10/the-phenomenon-of-the-%e2%80%9cu2-charist%e2%80%9d/#comment-239 Ah, U2. My church has a large service at Easter and topically we chose to open with a U2 song, "Where the Streets have no Name" actually--we have a worship band and pastor that can really pull it off excellently. We debated over it for a long time in the creative planning team, prayed about it, and decided to it fit too well not to include it--as an opening song, not a congregational piece. Strangely enough, we got quite a bit of feedback from guests and visitors that the song did something to loosen their fears about being in 'church' while also getting them to think differently about the layers of meaning in a 'secular song'... we were glad God could use it. Made the whole decision worth sweating over. But we've not made it standard. :) Ah, U2. My church has a large service at Easter and topically we chose to open with a U2 song, “Where the Streets have no Name” actually–we have a worship band and pastor that can really pull it off excellently. We debated over it for a long time in the creative planning team, prayed about it, and decided to it fit too well not to include it–as an opening song, not a congregational piece.

Strangely enough, we got quite a bit of feedback from guests and visitors that the song did something to loosen their fears about being in ‘church’ while also getting them to think differently about the layers of meaning in a ’secular song’… we were glad God could use it. Made the whole decision worth sweating over.

But we’ve not made it standard. :)

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